UCB Roundtable: Who Do You Trade?

We’ve come to the end of the annual post-season roundtable.  We’ve had two weeks of some good questions thrown out by the members of the United Cardinal Bloggers and lots of fun discussion was had by all.  Sadly, I have to come around and ruin it by asking the last question.  To hedge my bets (and hope that one sparked discussion), I pulled the “I planned this thing” card and asked two of the group.

Question one: We’ve done a lot of talking about the Cardinals making a deal and they have a lot of pieces involved.  Stipulating that everyone is touchable for the right price, rank the following potential trade chips from “hurts but OK” to “not over my dead body”.
Question two: We heard this week of some new tenants to Ballpark Village and there was a hint of more to come.  If you could place one business (or type of business) in BPV, what would it be?
And now, here are the responses:

Ben (The View From Here): Well, As for the trade chips. I think I would list them from easy to hard like this (with my rating):

Lance Lynn – Be gone, Big Inning!
Matt Adams – would take some ice cream to get over.
Kevin Siegrist – wouldn’t do anything left-handed for a month.
Joe Kelly – I might cry a little. Ok, I’d cry alot.
Shelby Miller – take me instead. Oh, I’m not a fantastic baseball player? ok. ok.
Oscar Taveras – you better knock me out, or we’re gonna fight.
Trevor Rosenthal – would go into a Hulk-like rage every time I see a radar gun.
Carlos Martinez – Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa? Noooooooooo!
Machael Wacha – not over my cold, dead body. Then, I would come back as a ghost and haunt Mo’s office for eternity.
As far as the second question goes, I’m at a bit of a disadvantage considering that I don’t know many St. Louis area businesses or anything. I had to google each of the places that was mentioned this week that would be going in there. If I had to say that there was one type of business that I would like to have in there, I would have to say that I would like to see a Cardinals-themed sports arcade.
It might be because I’m young, or because I liked arcades growing up, but I love to go to places like Dave & Busters. It’s fun to go and play all kinds of games like that. If they could make a Cardinals-themed one, where they could have some newer games and some older ones (I bet they could have a Cardinals pinball machine!), I think it would be really cool.

Joe (stlcupofjoe’s Sports Page): Question 1:

Going from “Hurts but OK” to “Not over my dead body”:
Matt Adams (I would not be upset if he netted the team a shortstop this off-season)
Kevin Siegrist (he’s up this high largely because I believe in Lee Stoppelman waiting in the wings)
Lance Lynn
Joe Kelly
Shelby Miller
Trevor Rosenthal (Shelby would be here if the Cardinals didn’t already have as much depth as they do at SP)
Michael Wacha
Carlos Martinez (I value Miller and Wacha, just love CMart’s future that much more)
Oscar Taveras (I want him to get a shot in the big leagues before any deals are truly discussed)
Question 2:
I think they already incorporated my choice here. The Budweiser Brew House. I have now lived in St. Louis for all 23 years of my life, and I have heard the phrases “baseball town with a drinking problem” or “drinking town with a baseball problem” too many times to count. It’s safe to say St. Louis is proud of its baseball and its beer, so it is a perfect idea to link the two together in such close proximity. However, I am interested to see how utterly expensive these beers will be.

Daniel (Redbird Rants): Untouchable: Miller, Wacha, Taveras, Rosenthal, Martinez

Siegrist depends on who is ready in the farm system.

If you need to use Adams, Kelly, or Lynn to get a SS, I’m fine with that.  Adams is limited to 1B/DH but Craig will likely stay at 1B due to his injury history with Taveras taking over in right or even a Piscotty if he has a really awesome spring.

Mark (RetroSimba): Answer to first question:Joe Kelly, Lance Lynn or Kevin Siegrist: Yes, as part of any package for an elite shortstop and/or elite center fielder.

Matt Adams: Only if the Cardinals receive a premier, all-star caliber RBI producer in return.

Carlos Martinez, Shelby Miller, Trevor Rosenthal, Oscar Taveras, Michael Wacha : All untouchable at this stage.

Answer to second question:

Egads, Ballpark Village, sadly, may be shaping up to be just another revenue-generating gimmick that will offer long lines and overpriced food, beer and trinkets to drive up the price of the “go-to-the-ballgame” experience. Instead of making this the Cardinals version of Disney, I wish the emphasis was more on the “village” and less on “business.” So I guess the business I want to see is one that keeps the focus on baseball and somehow rewards the fans for their support, not digs deeper into their pockets.

Tom (CardinalsGM): As I reply I find this difficult because it all depends on what the return is for a player. Some of the coveted ones will/could bring some pretty sweet players in return. Here goes a list…

Matt Adams
Kevin Siegrist
Joe Kelly
Lance Lynn
Shelby Miller
Trevor Rosenthal
Oscar Taveras
Michael Wacha
Carlos Martinez
Starting pitching is harder to get than really good outfielders, hence, my propensity for keeping young starters.  Remember Daric Barton, he was a can’t miss guy for the Cardinals, he never has lived up to it.
#2- Buffalo Wild Wings

Bill (I70 Baseball): This has become a hot-button issue for me lately and I really don’t see what many people do.  Let me put it this way:

If I came to you tomorrow and offered you a combination of Joe Kelly/Lance Lynn/Matt Adams in exchange for Matt Carpenter…would you do it?  Is three “middle-tier” players worth you giving up one elite player at a position where you have a prospect prepared to make the next jump.  If we want an elite player back, it’s fair to assume we will surrender an elite player in the process.
That’s a long way to get to my answer.  In my mind, Adams, Kelly, Lynn and Siegrist are all in a group that says “you can have any combination of these guys for your awesome shortstop”.  Carlos Martinez, Shelby Miller, Trevor Rosenthal, Oscar Taveras and Michael Wacha are in a category of “I realize it is probably going to take one of these guys, but you cannot have multiples from this group”.  In addition, that group may warrant an additional, mid to low level prospect coming back to the Cards.
So, if it takes Matt Adams, Lance Lynn, and Shelby Miller to get a quality shortstop, I’m okay with that.  I would hate to lose any of that group, but if it makes the overall team better, go for it.  I have to admit, I admire the Royals for having the guts to trade Wil Myers (and others) for James Shields.  They needed the pitching and were willing to part with a sure-fire prospect to get it.
On the second question, I have to agree with Mark a bit.  One of the things I love about St. Louis is the amount of activity I can do without having to pay for it.  The zoo, the brewery, the science center, Grant’s Farm, and many of the museums are completely free to visit.  I would like to see a company move into BPV that continues that tradition and gives fans a place to visit that is not a huge revenue stream.  Maybe an interactive “Kid’s Zone” that allows kids to learn more about the game.

Dan (Dose of Buffa): Here is my list.  For better or worse my preferred order of young gun dispatching.

Lance Lynn-Very Expendable because we know what he can do and what he can’t.  Lots of wins but little between the ears and a tendency to crumble in a big moment.
Kevin Siegrist-Sure he was lights out this past season until October, but we have a guy named Jason Motte returning and Sam Freeman ready to get more innings.
Matt Adams-Sure, he was very impressive for a stretch but was solved once a book came out on him.  Will he adjust?  No idea.  It is enough to make him expendable.
Joe Kelly-Why did he beat the previous two?  Kelly is ridiculously versatile and can pitch great at any moment in a game and after not being used for 3 months.  Valuable asset.
Carlos Martinez-He may be the Next Pedro but there is no telling when that transformation will be complete.  Electric but erratic, Carlos isn’t untouchable.
Shelby Miller-Yes he is an ace of the future and was a solid Rookie of The Year Candidate, but the Cards are grooming these guys like loaves of bread in Italy these days.
Trevor Rosenthal-Closer and Setup beast.  Potential starter.  The only pitcher to truly befuddle the Red Sox in the World Series.  This guy is so good he makes hitters talk to themselves.
Michael Wacha-We saw what he could do with a little summer tutelage and experience and he showed in September and October that he isn’t just a starter of the future but an ACE of the future.  He may get hit around more in 2014 but that doesn’t stop this Wacha train was becoming an elite pitcher in the next few years.  Killer arm and mindset.
Oscar Taveras-No way do teams get this guy!  Keep your shortstops and your plane tickets.  Oscar is a guy who can take over a game ala Yasiel Puig and have the better more respectable mindset not to show up the other team when it happens. His ankle is healed and his bat will soon be unleashed.  For all the rookie exposure in 2013, we didn’t get our taste of Mr. Taveras.  That will happen.  He is untouchable.
If I had to pick one thing to be in Ballpark Village, I will stick with something I have said since the beginning.  A movie theater.  Since MX Movies on the north side isn’t blowing people’s minds the way it should, give me one right in the heartland of St. Louis city.   There’s nothing better after the hysteria of a baseball game than a great movie theater experience.  And while it may not be cheap, neither is spending 9 dollars on a beer at a game.  If it’s great and provides an experience, I will pay for it.  Hit the game and then take the family to a movie.  Call me a self prescribed film-addict but I ask for a classy good looking movie theater in BP.  Downtown needs to be a hot spot again and a movie theater is a step in the right direction.

John (CardinalsFarm): To keep a long story short, here is how I would rate them from See ya to No way

Kevin Siegrist
Lance Lynn
Matt Adams
Joe Kelly
Trevor Rosenthal
Shelby Miller
Michael Wacha
Carlos Martinez
Oscar Taveras
A couple of points: The first four were easy for me, the last middle two were the hardest, and the last three were the easiest. I hate having Rosenthal so high on the list but there is no one else I would put there.
Taveras is the last to go on my list, and should be the last on yours too. I don’t think many Cards fans realize his potential. Taveras also take the top spot because he is a position player.
As far as part two, like Ben said, I am at a disadvantage because I have not lived in St. Louis since I left for college in 2002. I am hoping the Atlanta Braves, my local team, learns from the BPV when they design the area around the new stadium. There are some good things to learn and some not so good things.

Mark (Cardinals Fan In Cubs Land): Here is how I would rank them from “hurts, but OK” to “not over my dead body”.

Lance Lynn – too inconsistent for my taste
Joe Kelly – good, but not great
Matt Adams – only as part of a deal for a shortstop
Kevin Siegrist – this would hurt a lot, but if it got us something real good in return, then maybe
Shelby Miller – again, would have to get a lot in return
Trevor Rosenthal – only if/when Motte is healthy and then for a king’s ransom
Oscar Taveras – if it came down to him or Adams, I would keep him
Carlos Martinez – Not gonna happen
Michael Wacha – Not gonna happen

For question 2, I would like to see the Old Spaghetti Factory as part of the BPV.  I remember going there a lot after Cardinals games when I was younger, but would like it to be closer to the stadium.


My thanks and appreciation to all that took the time to answer the question.  There’s no doubt that it would depend on return, but I think my personal ranking, as in it would cause the most pain to see them go, no matter what the return, would be Lynn, Kelly, Siegrist, Adams (though this is where it really starts to hurt), Rosenthal, Miller, Martinez, Taveras, Wacha.  Not scientific, but just more of a gut reaction.
Secondly, as noted above not being a guy that spends time in St. Louis a lot, it’s tough to say what local landmarks should put a new branch in Ballpark Village.  Having Ted Drewes over there seemed to be a no-brainer and of course you’ve already got the Hall of Fame scheduled.  I’d like to see just some sort of baseball shop that had books, memorabilia, anything baseball related.  Would seem to be a good way to kill some time before the game, looking through those shelves and seeing what was in stock.
The Cardinal Blogger Awards come out later this week, so you aren’t done with the UCB yet!

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